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Dodgy Back
30cm Bream



Australia
256 Posts

Member No: #721

Posted - 14 Nov 2009 :  08:09:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Dodgy Back's Homepage Send Dodgy Back a Private Message
Yes Adam
You are right on one thing.
Lets hope those that are trailing behind and have a habit of chasing down the day 1 leaders have a better attitude and steer clear of where the leaders are fishing.
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scott19
30cm Bream



Australia
130 Posts

Member No: #1254

Posted - 14 Nov 2009 :  11:51:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit scott19's Homepage Send scott19 a Private Message
I can see were Adam is coming from,

I and others I know would like to some changes to
some Touraments to make things alittle different.

I think ABT has a fantasic product and they have proven it again and again but maybe changing a few things like a cull after the first day and I did hear a few people at the Grand finals talking about swapping the calander around for ABT comps for differet times of year.

The only way of having a cull after the first day would be rasing entry fees and we know what people did when ABT did that .

But saying all that if it is not having the income coming in to pay to run comps then there is not much we can do.

As long as I can get five fish to stick in my well I am happy..
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Waiwurri
30cm Bream



Australia
306 Posts

Member No: #516

Posted - 14 Nov 2009 :  9:05:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Waiwurri's Homepage Send Waiwurri a Private Message
I have read this thread from the start with some interest and decided to think about it before responding as I have never competed in a comp bigger than a social as it was eloquently put here in an early reply. . . .

I understand that being a leader can be tuff at times and that us lesser likes try to emulate the top blokes but Iím sure those guys also started out somewhere. I donít pretend to be a good bream fisherman in fact itís good that I enjoy a challenge cause thatís what most days flicking are for me but a challenge or not itís a buzz bream or no bream. I guess seeming I have not competed in a top money comp I donít really have the right to reply but if this is the attitude of the guys that fish them Iím guessing myself and many more also runs wonít be donating any money towards their winning prize pool.

Just a question, if I did get culled would I get Ĺ my money back? Because I know for sure I would still be out fishing the next day not that I put much pressure on the fish , so I better go get a faster boat with all the bells and whistles, bigger motor, more expensive gear and some of that ďdear as rocking horse pooĒ line . . . . sorry most of this reply is tongue in cheek but for mine talk up sport and get more guys fishing the big money comps as it will end up in the top blokes pockets anyway even if the waterway might resemble a Coles carpark, which make me wonder another thing why do some of the bigger sponsors teams fish the smaller comps? Canít be just for the money or is it for the social as well . . . . .

I guess if a boat brakes the rules kick them out!

Cheers Scott
Nitro 640 LX
PopperN
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budda
10cm Bream

Australia
42 Posts

Member No: #802

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  09:00:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit budda's Homepage Send budda a Private Message
I have never been interested in fishing comps for the some of the very reasons that have been raised in this topic. Leaving ettiquette aside, my view outside looking in:

Competitors have paid their comp fees and as such should be given the courtesy to fish the full event

How are new competitors supposed to grow as anglers if they can't fish the 2nd day? This would really lessen the participation in the sport and sponsorship/prizemoney etc which may see the demise or reduce the size of the sport.

How many times have top 20 anglers on day one flopped on day 2? Conditions can change hourly let alone daily, and someone at the back of the field could crack a decent patter on shut down fish

Any angler worth his salt should be able to catch fish in a shut down or competitive situation

Maybe there could be some incentive to keep the bottom half anglers interested ie those that do not have any chance to make the cut (ie they must pull the ABT record bag) could choose to forgo their chance to climb the leader board and their bag weights are set to zero and they compete for a minor prize of some sort.

The top 20 anglers could vote on maybe 3-5 "no go zones" for the bottom half field as voted by them to give them the opportunity to fish these in peace as their reward for their day 1 efforts, and if these spots don't fire on day 2 then bad luck - they voted for them! The no-go zones could be enforced maybe only at peak times eg first two hours/tide changes

I think maybe the ABT needs to listen to all anglers - the feedback from Starvin Marvin cannot be just be brushed aside as the sport needs to evolve and change. The ABT has grown enormously and there are going to be issues like these raised and the ettiquette piece. It's important that it listens.

Another issue I see with the ABT in Australia is comparative to the USA, it is relatively small, and funding may be an issue to provide sufficient resources to police those ettiquette issues.

I would be interested to read more in this topic.


Not sponsored - but fish with tackle I choose to use.

Edited by - budda on 15 Nov 2009 09:05:24 AM
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snag
Stonker



Australia
2137 Posts

Member No: #23

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  09:24:47 AM  Show Profile Send snag a Private Message
Just to add on my previous post, has anyone thought about accommodation at these event, do i book for more than one day and loose my money if i get culled?
I think that the ABT mega bream events have it worked out let everyone fish the first 2 days and then the top 10 fisho's have a shoot out on the third.
This way the guys that travell 10hrs plus or fly from interstate will at least have had there moneys worth.
If not it's just not worth it for them aswell.

Supported by Diztec Lures
http://diztek.webs.com/
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fisherman
Stonker



Australia
1200 Posts

Member No: #1900

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  4:46:58 PM  Show Profile Send fisherman a Private Message
I dont fish Comps, I've done a few social type "comps" and I am thinking of entering a few comps next year. I live in forster and with the exception for a few local comps (2-3) I would have to travel over 150kms to fish most comps. If i had traveled 300k's to fish a comp in the sydney region and getting culled on the first day, due to missing out by 1 spot; i would be sure that it would also be my last event.
maybe a way to solve the issues with people following the leaders/top fisho's around would be to have the officials enforce the rules more and if a person recieves 2 warnings about getting to close and dropping in, then they are banned/suspended for a period of time from entering comps, and if they have been suspended, then perhaps they should be ruled out of any grand finals etc.
I might be missing the point of some of this arguement due to not fishing many comps, but if on day one, i chose to target bream over the flats in the morning, then more into the racks for the afternoon with no success, locally in forster that really leaves the only other option for day 2 - to fish weedbeds. Does that mean i am following the leaders, as im only going to whats a pretty much "sure thing" in forster?
To solve the issue with NBs passing on the secret spots from pre fishing and the first day of the event, why doesnt the nb keep the same boater for the entire weekend??

Fisherman

Proudly Sponsored by Cranka Lures & Samaki Rods
www.crankalures.com
www.samaki.com.au

Who stole the chubby from my tackle tray....**** did!
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brimn
10cm Bream

39 Posts

Member No: #2094

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  5:31:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit brimn's Homepage Send brimn a Private Message
I know were your coming from adam,take the classic grand final just gone,the car park had about 6 boats that stuck at it all day and a few that came and went.We got about 20 leagals for the day and ended the day in 6th spot,1st and 2nd spot also fished there.Come day two and the best I counted was 31 boats at 8oclock.Me and browny laughed it off and had a bag by 9am.Most of the boats left by 10.
After the comp I spoke to a few blokes that fised there to see how they went and they said they didnt care if they got fish but were more interesed in watching the leaders styles and technics over weed beds.Some of these guys had traveled a long way and never fished a weed bed before.
I fish comps mainly for the fishing,the more comps the more fishing,if I win a prize"bonus".
Ive learnt a crap load fishing as many comps as I can.Take for example you may see someone fishing a particular spot and they do well in a comp, doesnt mean im gonna go flog the spot the next day but can go to a similar zone elsewere ie water depth weed rockwalls or whatever.
The more time on the water the better, if I got culled on the second day Id be spewin, what am I gonna do mow the lawn,go to the pub,maybe smoke some crack.
If you want to protect your spot get a ridiculously fast boat but at the end of the day a tinny with a 25 can come and fish 30m away anyhow.
I say NO to the cull and more time brimn

Grant
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Pukka
Moderator

1352 Posts

Member No: #29

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  6:14:55 PM  Show Profile Send Pukka a Private Message
This is a really difficult one to address and to be honest I'm not sure a day 1 cull would be workable.

Most of the experienced competitors I know who recognise a day 1 leader will give them a wide berth out of common courtesy. There are a few that don't because they're either inexperienced and don't recognise who the leaders are, or in some cases, because they are just plain discourteous.

Unfortunately we're in a world where it's costing more and more to compete and in this climate it's easy to see why etiquette is beginning to take a back seat to getting the right result.

But where etiquette is ignored, rules must always be abided by and the only written ruling we have relevant to the issue, is that boats stay at least 30m apart.

I think a good starting point would be to amend this rule to 75 or a 100 metres. This would prevent boats casting into areas where another is casting and also give competitors the right to ask another to move if they feel they're being crowded out.

That's my tuppence-a'penny anyway

Pukk'

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leelee
Stonker



Australia
1508 Posts

Member No: #409

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  8:35:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit leelee's Homepage Send leelee a Private Message
As I have previously mentioned on another site, technically there is no 30m rule. It is courtesy an nothing more.

The rule states you should stay 30m apart not that you MUST stay 30m apart.

Cheers

Lee

Two fish swim into a concrete wall.
The one turns to the other and
says, "Dam!"

N.B Boat picture removed so as not to upset any more people :-)
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Pukka
Moderator

1352 Posts

Member No: #29

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  8:40:29 PM  Show Profile Send Pukka a Private Message
Fair enough Lee, I was under the impression it was a 'written' rule.

So what about a 75-100m rule being introduced then?

Joe

Edited by - Pukka on 15 Nov 2009 8:40:52 PM
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blacktruck
30cm Bream



Australia
158 Posts

Member No: #701

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  9:35:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit blacktruck's Homepage Send blacktruck a Private Message
I like the 75 to a 100 mtr rule but make it a rule not a should.If someone comes within my casting range[30m]they will cop a plastic or a mouth full but prolly both.

Wes walker of the darkside
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Sniper75
20cm Bream



Australia
95 Posts

Member No: #1225

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  9:50:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sniper75's Homepage Send Sniper75 a Private Message
The only easy solution is for the lower field anglers to be curtious of the leaders and stay clear.

On the flip side though, say your a boater and the non boater you have with you is leading or in contention. They have done the hard work, found the fish in the same area earlier on their own and he asks to go there, unaware the leaders are there. What then?? He is still a leader. I know some will say who cares about the non boater, but not me. I'm not going to sacrafice a non boaters chance to win.

Sorry to throw another spanner in the works.

Cheers
Bill

OWNER
Perfection in Hooks

C'ultiva Lures
"They're as good as our hooks"
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leelee
Stonker



Australia
1508 Posts

Member No: #409

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  10:41:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit leelee's Homepage Send leelee a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Pukka

Fair enough Lee, I was under the impression it was a 'written' rule.

So what about a 75-100m rule being introduced then?

Joe


I think thatís the impression most people have Puk. I know I did but after re reading the rules it appears to be, well from my interpretation, that it is only a courtesy. I possibly though might have misinterpreted it incorrectly?

Cheers

Lee

Two fish swim into a concrete wall.
The one turns to the other and
says, "Dam!"

N.B Boat picture removed so as not to upset any more people :-)
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Steve_Morgan
30cm Bream



Australia
273 Posts

Member No: #105

Posted - 15 Nov 2009 :  11:13:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Steve_Morgan's Homepage Send Steve_Morgan a Private Message
Lee is right. 30m is suggested etiquette.

If most people here are talking about the Barrenjoey flats, then my opinion is that there's about 6 square kilometres of water there - enough for the whole field to fish and catch limits. Also no competetors have a 'right' to such a large area. If there's a sweet spot on it - back yourself and anchor on it. In the USA, that's the only way you can guarantee no incursions and the only way they take an incursion claim seriously.

Personally, most of the seasoned competitors I know and see fish are very courteous to their fellow anglers.

Adam,

ABT does run 'cut' style events - they're called the Super Series events and cut to the top ten boaters after the first two days.

Anglers who treat their fellow anglers poorly soon get a name for themselves. I think that's punishment enough for poor etiquette - unless you like being regarded as a poor sport.

Cheers,

SM

Steve Morgan
(07) 3387 0888 b/h
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TEAM BIG
20cm Bream



Australia
52 Posts

Member No: #1232

Posted - 16 Nov 2009 :  12:00:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit TEAM BIG's Homepage Send TEAM BIG a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by leelee

quote:
Originally posted by Dodgy Back

Adam
it is unfortunatley one of those things that will never stop.
Not a great deal any one can do about it.

By halving the field after day 1.
All that will do is half the entrants and also half the prize pool.

Alot of guys enter for fun and the hope of snagging a great bag. Culling the field will take alot of fun out of it.


Have to agree there Mick

You can't cull competitors who have earned the right to fish the Grand Final as they deserve the right to fish for 2 days and hopefully qualify for the final day.

As for pressure on the fish well the prefish day places a heap of pressure on the system prior to day 1 but people still catch fish on day 1 so the pressure theory is not always true.

The guys that finish in the top 10 for most comps do so because they have cracked the code and do what is necassary to get the fish, irrespective of pressure and technique that is required.

As an example a few years back Wayne Reed was running second last going into day 3 of the Oz open. A huge bag catapulted them up the ladder into 3 rd place. Shoudl they have been culled after the first few days? I don't think so.

Every minute you have in on the water gives you a chance. It only takes 5 bites to get you that bag.

Cheers

Lee


Good call !!!

NEVER EVER GIVE UP
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